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New Horizons(ver 14.0920) Translation Project

   Boon947

 
 
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Jazz писал(а):
Boon947 писал(а):
Announcing Version 0.002 of a (bad) English translation of NEW HORIZONS mod version 14.0920
http://eador.online.fr/Eador.7z

This translated version? I want to add a link to the main theme of mod.

Hello Jazz,

Feel free to add a link to my archive (although I might change the name at some point, to make it clear that it is the New Horizons mod, and it is in English; but that is a minor detail).

However, I feel that the quality of the translation is quite low, and maybe it is too soon to release it to a wide audience?

As I wrote in my previous message, I am looking for a way to reuse the translations from Drakon's team.

Oh, by the way, when do you expect the next release?
And what kind of changes would this release include?

Regards.
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пт Окт 24, 2014 19:51     Заголовок сообщения:

Boon947 писал(а):
However, I feel that the quality of the translation is quite low, and maybe it is too soon to release it to a wide audience?

As I wrote in my previous message, I am looking for a way to reuse the translations from Drakon's team.

Hi!
That's what I write - "Not the final version".

Boon947 писал(а):
Oh, by the way, when do you expect the next release?
And what kind of changes would this release include?

A new version of the mod we plan to release the New Year. Basically it will be corrected bugs and errors.
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   Kettarienne

 
 
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Boon947 писал(а):
Oh, by the way, when do you expect the next release?
And what kind of changes would this release include?
I wouldn't expect anything until christmas. Major economics upheaval will definitely be included, and global item rework is on the way. Do not think we will have time for spells, but you never know. As always, there will be some graphics improvement, balancing and bug fixing, and a few new events to boot. At least two major races' reworks are being conducted as of now, and I personally expect at least one to be finished by the time of the patch.
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   Boon947

 
 
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Just want to make sure I got this one right.

In NH from 2013.04 there are 1987 entries in dialog.var
In NH from 2014.09 there are only 1529 entries.

Did you guys really remove 450 entries?

I'm going to start over, keeping all of Drakon's translations.

Regards.
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   Kettarienne

 
 
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Boon947 писал(а):
In NH from 2014.09 there are only 1529 entries.
2372. Redownload it. https://cloud.mail.ru/public/04426f12882c/Eador.New_Horizons_14.0920.rar https://yadi.sk/d/Xa2Y1Fp6bZq3t
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Boon947 писал(а):

I'm going to start over, keeping all of Drakon's translations.


Hi everyone,

I've been following this thread for a while and decided to register on the forum today. This is my first post.

I've been a big fan of Eador for years, but only recently discovered the New Horizons mod. I downloaded Drakon's English version 13.0421 v1.5 two weeks ago and was impressed with it. I stumbled upon this thread while searching for any more recent translations, and for a few days eagerly anticipated the release of the 14.0920 version. I haven't played enough with it yet to notice any of the new improvements, but did quickly realize the limitations of Google Translate. Sad

Let me start by expressing huge appreciations to Drakon and Boon947 for their respective efforts in the past and these last weeks. I love 4x games, but Eador is the best of them all for me, even in the vanilla version. Now, I do have a particular reason to write this, and to write this now. First of all, I don't understand a single word of Russian. However, I am a professional translator in Dutch, German and English, so I know my way around automated translation and localization tools. That's why I couldn't resist doing some research on if, and how, it would be possible to easily integrate Drakon's work into the new September release, and automate the whole process for future use.

I am now in the process of creating a so-called TM (Translation Memory) by a process called alignment. What this means is that I take both Russian and English 13.0421 var and text folders and put them through an aligner. Because of some problems with the Cyrillic character encoding, this unfortunately still requires some manual handling and review, which takes time. The end result of this is a TM, a kind of bi-lingual document that works as a database while using CAT-software (Computer Aided Translation), like the one I use, Trados Studio 2014.

The TM is a collection of TU's (Translation Units), with every line of all the var and text files stored separately. If I then take the Russian 14.0920 version and load those files into Trados Studio, it will automatically translate all lines that already occur in the 13.0421 version automatically. Even lines that are more than 70% similar will get hits from that TM, so translation is easier. Besides that, any line without a 100% match will automatically be translated by Google and flagged for review. Dictionaries or glossaries of terms can be integrated in the software as well. All in all, this is IMHO the best and fastest way to produce a high quality English version of the latest New Horizons release.

As an additional bonus, every newly translated line is added to the TM, so if a new version will come out in 2015, only the new content will have to be manually translated (or automatically translated by Google and then edited and improved). All lines that already exist somewhere, anywhere in a previous version, will be automatically translated.

I am abroad and on holiday now, but will be back home on Wednesday. I work freelance, so may have enough time in the near future to complete this project relatively quickly, say in about two weeks maximum. Inevitably, while revising the Google translations, I will also need the occasional help by native speakers, but I could gather issues that are unclear while I work, and list them on a publicly accessible Google sheet, rather then feed them piecemeal in different forum posts, so those of you who have the ability and some time, could just insert their suggestions and thoughts there.

@Boon947: It is not my intention to barge in on your work so far. Still, I am going to do this anyway, even if just for my own use, because I love the game and it deserves a translation that will do it justice. I don't need to share it with anyone, but I could easily do that of course, and I just thought it might save you a lot of time, if you don't own CAT-software and/or have no experience with automatic localization. Let me know what you think...
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   Kettarienne

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Пн Окт 27, 2014 21:09     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):
The TM is a collection of TU's (Translation Units), with every line of all the var and text files stored separately. If I then take the Russian 14.0920 version and load those files into Trados Studio, it will automatically translate all lines that already occur in the 13.0421 version automatically. Even lines that are more than 70% similar will get hits from that TM, so translation is easier. Besides that, any line without a 100% match will automatically be translated by Google and flagged for review. Dictionaries or glossaries of terms can be integrated in the software as well. All in all, this is IMHO the best and fastest way to produce a high quality English version of the latest New Horizons release.
This is like, the best news I've heard in weeks. The difficulty of intertwining different translations manually is actually what hindered most previous translation efforts. If this project bears fruit, I will do my best to try and pre-translate any new text for upcoming versions for your use, the goal being near-simultaneous releases of Russian and English versions.
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Don't know if this will be useful. But I have charts for the older translation with some new parts, well not exactly new but of higher version than the translated one. Those include only names of the units, places, buildings, items, spells, skills and so on.

The dialogues/events/descriptions translation were made by Google Translate and then beautified by TehRic and man he did a great job with them, since he has a professional degree in English.


https://yadi.sk/i/Ddjz5HpacNK3b
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   Boon947

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Ср Окт 29, 2014 2:44     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):
@Boon947: It is not my intention to barge in on your work so far. Still, I am going to do this anyway, even if just for my own use, because I love the game and it deserves a translation that will do it justice. I don't need to share it with anyone, but I could easily do that of course, and I just thought it might save you a lot of time, if you don't own CAT-software and/or have no experience with automatic localization. Let me know what you think...

I think it is awesome that someone with experience with translation (and also appropriate tools, and of course a love for games, and this one in particular) wants to get involved in the project!
I can only push the project so far, and like you, I've been dissatisfied with some of Google's translations.

You mention a problem with the encoding. It took me a few hours to figure out the files were encoded in code page 1251
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1251

I can easily translate them to UTF-8 for you if it would help?

I have also generated a mapping of translations for the "Name" variables. I'll package that for everyone to examine. Which encoding is better CP1251 or UTF-8?

Regards.
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   Boon947

 
 
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@Drakon,

I wanted to ask you. In the var folder of eador.New_Horizons_13.04Z English v1.5.zip there are

644693 Sep 6 2013 dialog.var*
644651 Jun 30 2013 dialog_eng.var*

I suppose dialog_eng.var is an older version of dialog.var and can be safely ignored?

Regards.
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   Drakon

 
 
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Boon947 писал(а):
@Drakon,

I wanted to ask you. In the var folder of eador.New_Horizons_13.04Z English v1.5.zip there are

644693 Sep 6 2013 dialog.var*
644651 Jun 30 2013 dialog_eng.var*

I suppose dialog_eng.var is an older version of dialog.var and can be safely ignored?

Regards.

Either that or it is a backup of the original Eador var. I have a habbit of creating backup versions of the file just by archivating/renaming it. I guess I forgot to delete it.
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If anyone has a skype and need some help with difficulties in translation I can help. I won't do the translation myself(I just don't have time for that) but I can correct confusing parts and maybe explain something in written form. For me it will be like an English-Russian translation exercise Smile
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Ср Окт 29, 2014 14:50     Заголовок сообщения:

Drakon писал(а):
I have charts for the older translation with some new parts, well not exactly new but of higher version than the translated one. Those include only names of the units, places, buildings, items, spells, skills and so on.

Great! I downloaded the sheet and can integrate it into the TM and create a so-called term base with it too.

Boon947 писал(а):
I can easily translate them to UTF-8 for you if it would help?

Thanks, but I already managed it, and yes, it also took me a while to figure that out. Smile I've batch converted all files to UTF-8 with a freeware program called EncodingMaster.

Boon947 писал(а):
I have also generated a mapping of translations for the "Name" variables. I'll package that for everyone to examine. Which encoding is better CP1251 or UTF-8?

I think UTF-8 would be best.

Kettarienne7 писал(а):
I will do my best to try and pre-translate any new text for upcoming versions for your use

That would be helpful. Any bi-lingual lists or translations that already exist can easily be added to the TM, and will save time afterwards.

Just to explain a bit better how this works. As I already mentioned, a TM (Translation Memory) is a bi-lingual database used with CAT-software (Computer Aided Translation). Every entry can be as little as one character or as much as a whole paragraph. More often than not, one of these entries, a TU or Translation Unit, is one single sentence, ending with a dot. Plain txt-files are often segmented by lines. All entries are unique, so no duplicates exist. To add sentences to the TM, ideally I would need two files, one in Russian and one in English, in a text format (.txt, .doc, .xls) with the same number of sentences. If the number of sentences don't match, I'll have to "align" them manually (hence the name). So if in Russian it says "I hate orcs. I eat them." and in English it's translated as "I hate orcs and eat them." there's a mismatch which needs readjustment. That's why the initial creation of the TM takes the most work. I have already started this and it will take me a few days to complete that. I'm back home now, so I should have more time.

So pre-translations should be added to the TM before I start translating a new project. If translations for the new parts that were added between version 13.0421 and 14.0920 exist, or can be created by some of you, it would be great to receive them BEFORE I load all 14.0920 files into the translation software and start translating. Any new parts for which no prior translation exists in the TM, will then be translated automatically by Google, but as I go through each file, sentence by sentence, 100% TM matches are skipped and only the new sentences are presented for editing. And even though I don't understand Russian, I can still check terms while I translate. For instance, if there's a new sentence in Russian that features a particular creature that occurs in a name list or has already been translated before, I get a Google translation that gives me a rough idea of the meaning. I can click on any word in the russian sentence to see if that one word occurs anywhere in the TM, so if Google would have translated the creature in a wrong way, I can easily correct that and improve it as well. My English is pretty good, so it should be possible for me to translate any new New Horizons version this way for about 99% to 99.9%. At this final point the still missing 0.1% to 1% of all content could then be translated by some sort of community effort. As I said, I could share a Google sheet with some of you at that point.

I'll keep you posted on developments. For now it will take me a few days to create the TM. Any pre-translations of new content (14.0920 vs 13.0421) are very welcome during that time. Once this phase is completed and I will start working on the actual translation of 14.0920, it will be a bit more difficult to integrate translations once a sentence has already been flagged as new and translated automatically by Google.

Am I correct in the assumption that only the Text and var folders contain the language specific files? Or are there other files that need to be localized?

I was also curious about the graphical elements. I am a hobby photographer and work with Photoshop a lot, so I could possibly also create English typographic artwork from the existing Russian ones.
It's not that crucial, but it would be nice if it actually said "Eador New Horizons" on the menu screen, rather than the cyrillic lettering. I can read cyrillic letters by the way, which sometimes helps with the alignment process. I learned some Bulgarian in the past. Smile
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СообщениеДобавлено: Ср Окт 29, 2014 17:36     Заголовок сообщения:

Satshanti писал(а):


I was also curious about the graphical elements. I am a hobby photographer and work with Photoshop a lot, so I could possibly also create English typographic artwork from the existing Russian ones.
It's not that crucial, but it would be nice if it actually said "Eador New Horizons" on the menu screen, rather than the cyrillic lettering. I can read cyrillic letters by the way, which sometimes helps with the alignment process. I learned some Bulgarian in the past. Smile

That's great. I just don't know enough of the photoshop(but I really enjoy doing something in it) to create the same letters. At least I wanted the English ones to be the same

As for my sheet. several names changed order multimple times and there bound to be some differences, so please recheck.



About the text and var files, you can look in this thread. There is a list of all(well, 99% of the) files for the translation, with details.

http://eador.com/B2/viewtopic.php?t=2721
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Ср Окт 29, 2014 17:49     Заголовок сообщения:

Drakon писал(а):
Satshanti писал(а):

I was also curious about the graphical elements. I am a hobby photographer and work with Photoshop a lot, so I could possibly also create English typographic artwork from the existing Russian ones.
It's not that crucial, but it would be nice if it actually said "Eador New Horizons" on the menu screen, rather than the cyrillic lettering.

That's great. I just don't know enough of photoshop to create the same letters. At least I wanted the English ones to be the same

Great, well I'm not a coder, at least not professionally Smile so where is/are the file(s) I need to modify for that and what are they called?
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Satshanti писал(а):
Drakon писал(а):
Satshanti писал(а):

I was also curious about the graphical elements. I am a hobby photographer and work with Photoshop a lot, so I could possibly also create English typographic artwork from the existing Russian ones.
It's not that crucial, but it would be nice if it actually said "Eador New Horizons" on the menu screen, rather than the cyrillic lettering.

That's great. I just don't know enough of photoshop to create the same letters. At least I wanted the English ones to be the same

Great, well I'm not a coder, at least not professionally Smile so where is/are the file(s) I need to modify for that and what are they called?

Well, this is an animation, so there are 15 bmp files for that in Anim.dat. 38CRE.bmp-52CRE.bmp
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СообщениеДобавлено: Ср Окт 29, 2014 18:07     Заголовок сообщения:

Drakon писал(а):
Satshanti писал(а):
Drakon писал(а):
Satshanti писал(а):

I was also curious about the graphical elements. I am a hobby photographer and work with Photoshop a lot, so I could possibly also create English typographic artwork from the existing Russian ones.
It's not that crucial, but it would be nice if it actually said "Eador New Horizons" on the menu screen, rather than the cyrillic lettering.

That's great. I just don't know enough of photoshop to create the same letters. At least I wanted the English ones to be the same

Great, well I'm not a coder, at least not professionally Smile so where is/are the file(s) I need to modify for that and what are they called?

Well, this is an animation, so there are 15 bmp files for that in Anim.dat. 38CRE.bmp-52CRE.bmp

Okay, I'll have a look. Gives me something to do for fun when I'm fed up with all that text. Smile It would be a nice touch to make something eye-pleasing there too, the icing on the cake! Smile
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Satshanti писал(а):

Okay, I'll have a look. Gives me something to do for fun when I'm fed up with all that text. Smile It would be a nice touch to make something eye-pleasing there too, the icing on the cake! Smile


You do know how to grab files, right?

Just in case

https://yadi.sk/d/lu9j8XmIcNJzj
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   Satshanti

 
 
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СообщениеДобавлено: Ср Окт 29, 2014 18:22     Заголовок сообщения:

Drakon писал(а):
Satshanti писал(а):

Okay, I'll have a look. Gives me something to do for fun when I'm fed up with all that text. Smile It would be a nice touch to make something eye-pleasing there too, the icing on the cake! Smile

You do know how to grab files, right?
Just in case
https://yadi.sk/d/lu9j8XmIcNJzj

I'm not a game programmer, but I may have figured it out somehow. Smile Still, this was easier. Thanks! I can work with those bitmaps.

BTW, why doesn't it say "Eador" at the top? As far as I can deduct, sotvorenie means "Creation". Should I use that? Sorry if I'm being obtuse...

Aaah, now I get it... it means "Genesis" of course, but where is the file for "Eador"?
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СообщениеДобавлено: Ср Окт 29, 2014 19:54     Заголовок сообщения:

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Aaah, now I get it... it means "Genesis" of course, but where is the file for "Eador"?
Interface.dat A133Menu
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